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svaganet
P Plater
16 Posts
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 Posted - 30 Dec 2006 : 6:19:23 PM
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Currently have a stock 89 Series 1 V6 auto. Running a stock exhaust system. Engine has done 230 000 k's. Recond tranny done approx 40 000 k's. I have a few questions:
1. Is it worth chipping?
2. If so what are my options?
3. Is it worthwhile doing the exhaust system as well?
4. What would the approx costs be?
5. What could the overall benefits be?
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!
PS.  The whining issues I had a couple months ago I have now sorted. The brakes were fine, the noise was coming from the diff. A little costly to fix, but now done.
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 31 Dec 2006 : 12:36:45 AM
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The best way to go would be a chip, cam and exhaust package to get the most out of it. Just a chip will not give you a very noticable result if any, you would only really see a result on the dyno. I would be getting a decent exhaust system, a K&N style panel filter and CAI first off and then maybe think about a chip and cam package. I have also been told that the best way rather than a chip and cam is get the cam grind you want and get your computer remapped although this is not a cheap option. Just as an example the Brock shop charges $800 but i must say it is well worth it. As for prices i cant help you there but hopefully someone else will be able to shed some light on the subject.
Good luck |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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lolo
Fully Licenced
503 Posts
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Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 12:32:07 AM
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| For about 10-15kw (conservative estimate) do what VNSVLE said... get a CAI, pacemakers, good cat converter and 2.5" exhaust, and get a memcal programmed especially for these mods, should cost around 2 grand. If you have more to spend get a mild cam and ported heads. All up this should make ur car nice... nothing over the top but quicker than most VN's.... however if you have serious mods planned in the future.... dont get the memcal changed cos ur just gonna have to do it all over again.... a custom memcal should set u back aroun $500 in melbourne... of the top of my head |
Marcus Rogulic R.I.P (1980-2007)
"The Good Die Young" |
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lolo
Fully Licenced
503 Posts
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Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 12:33:37 AM
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| a street chip and cam package from crow cams is pretty expensive...$4800 last time I checked |
Marcus Rogulic R.I.P (1980-2007)
"The Good Die Young" |
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svaganet
P Plater
16 Posts
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Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 08:36:16 AM
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| Thanks for the advice people. Alot of money has to be spent for such a small increase in power, does'nt it. 10 - 15kw for $2k, mind you I think in a car as light as the VN, 15kw is a sizeable amount of extra power. Also what I meant with my post, is 230 000k's alot for a VN. Am I better off letting this engine go and then change it over later on. Is it worth putting new cams etc on an engine with this many k's? |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 6:36:18 PM
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230,000km isn't a lot for a VN. Not really...most are coming up fast on 300,000 or they are already over it.
If you're going to go to all the hassle of doing a cam swap, it would make sense to me to spend the extra dollars and get the engine fully rebuilt, with a bit of a port/polish thrown in. Maybe even bore it a bit if you want. Otherwise you'll be paying to get the engine rebuilt in a few years ANYWAY, might as well pay for labour only once.
10-15kW will give you a fair difference to your car. However, if you want to get a bit clever about it...a small supercharger can be bolted on fairly cheaply and will give you a massive shove in the back when you put your foot down. Even something as low as 6psi boost can make a big difference to a VN. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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driveacarsideways
Fully Licenced
105 Posts
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Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 9:50:07 PM
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| my vn has done 350000 and is still going strong. I recently looked at doing the same thing. You can get a stage 2 crowe cam and memcal kit for $950, CAI for $99, and if you didn't want to fork out for extractors you could get a cat back exhaust faily cheap which will still give you an advantage. All up the expected increase was 20%. |
don't rush me, I get paid by the hour |
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trizo
Forum Moderator
3091 Posts
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Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 10:30:33 PM
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| and were was it that got these prices? |
3 can keep a secret if 2 are dead |
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driveacarsideways
Fully Licenced
105 Posts
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Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 10:32:16 PM
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| autobarn, cranbourne VIC |
don't rush me, I get paid by the hour |
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trizo
Forum Moderator
3091 Posts
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Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 10:44:23 PM
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| did that include labour and dyno??? |
3 can keep a secret if 2 are dead |
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lolo
Fully Licenced
503 Posts
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Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 10:48:42 PM
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| Fair enough, those prices dont really compute but we'll take ur word for it, I wouldnt bother with the cat back exhaust personally but I know for about $1500 you can pick up a SC14 supercharger kit from Castlemaine Rod shop (C.R.S) made for the VN. They run around 8psi. Have heard that sometimes the engine may cut out at idle however there is also a straight fuel upgrade kit with VT injectors that will take care of that and only costs around $400-500... probably the way to go if you havent got a massive budget... and I dont think it should be a problem on an engine with 230,000ks unless you get greedy and get a 12psi pulley or something |
Marcus Rogulic R.I.P (1980-2007)
"The Good Die Young" |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 11:05:19 PM
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LOL...I wouldn't waste my time or money on the SC14 from CRS. Some people have them and love them, and no dis-respect to them. They serve a purpose, but I was talking about a REAL supercharger, start thinking somewhere around $3,000.
Those prices for the gear at Autobarn seem a bit screwy to me too. That CAI would probably be the SS-Inductions one which retails for something stupid like $250. Get the CAI for the VS s/c V6 and fit it yourself, there's $20 saved there, they only cost $60-$70 brand new from Holden.
The memcal that comes with the Stage 2 cam (for $950???) would just be a 'near-enough' tune to make it a bit more powerful, but you'd still be a long way off peak power. To get a good memcal made up with full load-tested dyno tuning costs from about a grand, and goes up with dyno runs and time (unless you've got the gear to do it yourself 
Also, the upgrade that will run the VT injectors, would simply dump more fuel into the engine to overcome the lean patch that would occur at idle. It's a bit of a band-aid solution, the right way to do it would be to get it all setup properly so that it will idle normally. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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svaganet
P Plater
16 Posts
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Posted - 03 Jan 2007 : 09:38:12 AM
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| Excellent info there people. Thanks alot. I am looking around, doing the numbers (I am no Rockerfeller), but have a reasonable budget. I like the thought of supercharging. Anyone here think the supercharged V6 from the VS or VT is a practical way to go or a very expensive one which is not compatible to the VN chassis/mechanicals. Eg. will the tranny/diff have to be beefed up as well? The problem I have found in the wet is the stock V6 VN (although it is an auto) can get quite hairy, I may have to do some work on the underpinnings as well if I beefed the power up by a bit. I know the VN underpinnings handle the 165kw V8, but surely they are different to the V6 VN. Are they not? Thanks again everybody! |
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svaganet
P Plater
16 Posts
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Posted - 03 Jan 2007 : 09:42:10 AM
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| This could very quickly end up becoming a project car if I go down this road. Enhance one thing, then there is something else that needs to be done as well. Hmmmm. Because I like the VN, I think it is worthwhile turning into something reasonable. |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 03 Jan 2007 : 09:46:33 AM
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You think the auto can get a bit interesting in the wet? I've got a manual, and I have massive problems with it. That's why I'm about to go and spend $1800 on a suspension and already spent $800 on tyres and rims (15").
The stock V8 suspension (in the SS) was the FE2 which is lower by 1" on standard and a bit stiffer. It also had a slightly different diff ratio in it and it had bigger brakes.
The VS supercharged V6 is something that at least one other person on here is looking at, I can't recall the price exactly, but for the power that you get, as well as the extra 'refinement' (if that matters to you) it would be well worth it.
As far as I know the gearbox needs to be swapped as well, but I'm willing to be proven wrong on that one. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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svaganet
P Plater
16 Posts
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Posted - 03 Jan 2007 : 10:22:42 AM
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| Enough dreaming. I will set a budget of $5k (including labour). What is the best way to go to improve the stock product? Best that I set a budget, because it is hard for you guys who actually know what you are talking about (unlike me, that is why I am on here getting advice) to come up with a good low cost option for achieving better overall performance from stock. Alot of options have come up, including cam/chip changes, exhaust changes and supercharging. I will obviously check up myself, but don't trust the actual performance places to lead me in the best direction for the lowest cost (as I am a novice). |
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trizo
Forum Moderator
3091 Posts
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Posted - 03 Jan 2007 : 10:53:48 AM
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| as it has been suggested already a cai from a super charged vs, extactors ,larger throttle body a pod or panel filter with the cai running directly into the air box is a good start as well... also worth mentioning is getting a stage 2 shift kit since yours is a auto! this may set u bak about $1500 not sure about labour as never payed 4 it myself! it might b worth mentioning but a set of yella terra rolla rockers will give it a bit more sting, I think i was quoted around $900 but well worth it!!! most of these mods if not all u can do your self and will give u a big notice in power, esecialy if u think she already got balls and not just that u still got sum bucks 2 play with!!! just athought!! |
3 can keep a secret if 2 are dead |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 03 Jan 2007 : 12:32:05 PM
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The roller rockers that trizo suggested would be a good idea, make sure they are a slightly higher ratio than the stock rockers and you'll notice a good difference, couple those with the other mods listed there. And a good set of extractors with full length 2.5" mandrel bend pipework behind them will surprise you nicely.
That should all come in under budget PLUS it gives you one hell of a good base to build on further when you get a few more dollars to play with.
Upgrading the rockers to higher-ratio roller-rockers cuts back on friction (thus giving you more power) and also opens a valves a bit more (sort of acting in a similar way to a more lumpy cam, albeit for a fraction of the price). This gives you extra power on two fronts.
Anyone know of any good performance workshops in Adelaide?
BTW: All the work that trizo suggested (maybe with the exception of the extractors and the shift kit) can be fitted at home if you've got a good set of tools and a garage to work in. So long as you know which end of a spanner to hold you should be able to do most of it yourself. Hell...we all do most of the work ourselves, saves a lot of money. By doing the work myself, last year alone I saved more than $2000 in labour costs. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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driveacarsideways
Fully Licenced
105 Posts
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Posted - 03 Jan 2007 : 2:15:22 PM
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the crowe kit is just the kit. you gotta do the work yourself. so no dyno. it is just a generic fuel map for that cam grind. A custom one would be much better but cost a lot more.
quote:
trizo
as it has been suggested already a cai from a super charged vs, extactors ,larger throttle body a pod or panel filter with the cai running directly into the air box is a good start as well...
what trizo has suggested is an excellent starting point.
what size throttle body and how much do they go for?
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don't rush me, I get paid by the hour |
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trizo
Forum Moderator
3091 Posts
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Posted - 03 Jan 2007 : 5:31:38 PM
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| the v8 throttle body should do the job won't give u any xtra power but a better launch as the throttle can open and let more oxygen in.. and is also a good starter 4 futher work on the engine.. also as mouce has said most of us do all our own work were not mechanics or anything (sum of us might be but not me) most of us are just bak yard hacks that are on a budget and have a small amount of knowledge... there's no better feeling than doing the work your self and then seeing or feeling the end result .. I know it gives me a chubby lol!!!! these vn's are not that complicated 1nc u know your way around them!!! |
3 can keep a secret if 2 are dead |
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driveacarsideways
Fully Licenced
105 Posts
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Posted - 03 Jan 2007 : 7:10:53 PM
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does the v8 throttle body bolt straight on? what esle needs to be done?
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don't rush me, I get paid by the hour |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 03 Jan 2007 : 7:25:57 PM
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The V8 t/b bolts straight up. It's a piece of cake to change.
Since you've got the auto, don't forget to reset the kickdown cable (otherwise your shift points will be shot to hell). Other than that...enjoy |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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trizo
Forum Moderator
3091 Posts
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Posted - 03 Jan 2007 : 7:35:46 PM
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| I knew there was sumthing else!!! ;o |
3 can keep a secret if 2 are dead |
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driveacarsideways
Fully Licenced
105 Posts
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Posted - 03 Jan 2007 : 8:39:56 PM
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| awesome, thanks for that. now all i need to do is find one??? |
don't rush me, I get paid by the hour |
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svaganet
P Plater
16 Posts
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Posted - 04 Jan 2007 : 06:36:36 AM
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| Taken the info on board. Am looking around at the options. |
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trizo
Forum Moderator
3091 Posts
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Posted - 04 Jan 2007 : 09:47:57 AM
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| let us know wich direction u are gonna go in and we may be able 2 help a bit more!!! |
3 can keep a secret if 2 are dead |
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MILD50
Fully Licenced
850 Posts
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Posted - 06 Jan 2007 : 4:12:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lolo
a street chip and cam package from crow cams is pretty expensive...$4800 last time I checked
I'd be rechecking boss- that sounds a mile off! I got my cam, springs, lifters and chip for just over a grand for my VN 5litre... admittedly tossed the chip over my shoulder though. |
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trizo
Forum Moderator
3091 Posts
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Posted - 06 Jan 2007 : 7:01:23 PM
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| sorry mild 50 thats right, a proper custom chip and cam fitted and tuned on the dyno, well you are paying for top grade parts that are tuned 2 your car... now your chip may have got tossed cause it wasnt tuned right !!! if it was all done propely on the dyno (which gets xpensive!!) it would run in sync with the other upgrades that u had fitted!!! |
3 can keep a secret if 2 are dead |
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driveacarsideways
Fully Licenced
105 Posts
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Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 2:27:12 PM
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There is a person selling a custom chip for standard vn up to vs that will accomodate CAI and exhaust. He claims it improves drivablility, economy and gives a little bit better performance. They are only $140. This may be a cheap option depending on other mods.
P.S. it wont compensate for new cam |
don't rush me, I get paid by the hour |
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trizo
Forum Moderator
3091 Posts
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Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 7:38:50 PM
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m8 I wouldnt bother with second hand chips!!!!!
If u want a proper chip upgrade expect to pay 4 it ...
dyno ,tune and setup ect.. and not just that u may need 2 go bak to the dyno if your not happy with it! $$$$$$$$$$$ |
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driveacarsideways
Fully Licenced
105 Posts
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Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 9:03:43 PM
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| yeah, that the thing i didn't want to spen the $$$ as i know a proper set up would cost a bomb. I figured for $140 if it only makes a slight improvement then its not that bad. |
don't rush me, I get paid by the hour |
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