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SWEET
Fully Licenced
600 Posts
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 Posted - 28 Jan 2007 : 04:27:28 AM
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hi again, just wanna know somthing. ive seen these clamp things they sell in some auto stores and its like a clamp and it bolts onto the springs and holds it down so your car cuold be lowered. has anyone heard of this? and will it like fall out wen you drive or somthing bad mite happen while driving. there pretty cheap its like $30 a set so i thought mite buy it but wanna make sure from you guys first will i have bad handling if its on. thanx again. b4dn xxxx
p.s i bet ya mouce is gonna answer this one hehe!
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 28 Jan 2007 : 2:16:26 PM
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I am not 100% on this but i am pretty sure that they are illegal for on road use and are only meant to be a cheap and easy way to lower for shows and such i think you will find. If anyone can put me in my place about this please do i am only going on what i have heard.
The right way to lower your car although it may get a little expensive would be to buy the proper lowered springs and shockies to suit. I have been looking around a bit lately because my cars suspension has been mutilated with a grinder by the previous owner and a round about figure for shocks and springs(and adjustable panhard rod if you are going to extremes) are approx. 150-200 per set of front and rear springs and shockies depending on the size of the wallet of course but a decent set range anywhere from 150-200 a pair. A whiteline adjustable panhard rod i think was around the 160 mark.
Hope that helps you out with your decision. |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 28 Jan 2007 : 11:38:33 PM
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For show room use only.
The only LEGAL way to lower your car is to purchase lowered springs and have them fitted.
The factory standard suspension for all VN execudores out there is nice and high. Sadly it also causes the car to handle somewhat like a large boat  There was a factory 'sports' option suspension designated code FE2 on the factory options sheet. This sits approximately 1" lower than standard execudores and was used as 'standard' equipment on all SS models (and maybe the S pack as well).
If all you want to do is lower it from standard execudore height to FE2 height, you just need the lowered springs, the standard shocks/struts were the same for FE2 (I believe).
If you want to drop below FE2 height then you need to look at shortened shocks/struts so that the springs remain 'captive' when you go over bumps. Due to the nature of the live axle design used on the VN at the rear, at full suspension travel it's possible for shortened springs to become dislodged and fall out. Needless to say this isn't good for you or your car.
When lowering your car there are several important rules which, for legal reasons, must be followed:
* No part of the car, excluding the tyres and/or rims and or brake discs, is allowed to be any closer to the ground than 100mm. <-- This includes bodykits/lights/towballs/exhaust...
* No part of the car, excluding the tyre is permitted to be closer to the ground than the rim
* At full suspension extension the springs must remain captive <-- So when you jack the car up off the ground (jacked on the chassis) when the wheel leaves the ground you CANNOT move the spring by hand.
Now...the parts that you'll need really depends on the quality you're after. If you want it dumped in the weeds and don't care how it handles then you can get a set of KingSprings for next-to-nothing prices just about anywhere.
If you want it dropped a little, but want it to corner like it's on rails then you'll need to spend a bit more. My suspension has been well and truly dead for a while, so I've finally gotten around to replacing it. The struts are costing me $285 for the front pair, the rear shocks will cost me a similar amount, and when I pick up the rest of the gear I'll let you know the grand total, I'm doing springs/shocks/struts/swaybars/panhard rod/bumpstops/bearing plates and I'm expecting it to come in somewhere around $1800 (parts only). But when it's all in...my car will sit flat through ANY corner.
About the panhard rod. If you have a standard suspension and want to go to FE2 then an adjustable panhard rod isn't really a must (unless you're running 235 or wider tyres). Anything more than 1" lower and an adjustable panhard rod should be added to the car.
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Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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SWEET
Fully Licenced
600 Posts
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Posted - 29 Jan 2007 : 02:54:56 AM
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| thanx again mouce and lol bout how it rides like a boat because mine does wen i corner fast its even bouncy. but i think thats cos my shocks r dead. with the fe2 suspension how much do they cost? cos i aint got the money to spend 1g's on suspension yet but will but not just now. oh yeh i was just wondering would 4 example vt commodore springs if i get that and put it on would they fit cos in my view they look pretty low well som of them lol. wat does FE2 stand for? thanx agin |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 29 Jan 2007 : 10:18:29 AM
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FE2 was just the option code designated by GMHA during production, it doesn't mean anything. As for how much the FE2 springs would cost, they shouldn't cost heaps, given that they are factory equipment, they should be fairly cheap.
The short answer to your question about the VT springs is no. The VT had IRS, the springs are a completely different shape to that of the Live Axle setup that the VN runs at the rear.
If all you want to do is stop yourself getting sea-sick every time you go around a roundabout, replace your shocks/struts. The shocks are a piece of cake, they take about half an hour to do the complete rear end. The struts take a bit more effort, but hopefully by the end of next weekend, I'll have all the pictures for doing a full how-to for everyone on completely re-doing the suspension on a VN |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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SWEET
Fully Licenced
600 Posts
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Posted - 29 Jan 2007 : 12:06:49 PM
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| oh ok yeh ive replaced the rears b4 and it was easy just 2 bolts one on the bottom and one on top and the springs just come off wen u jack it up by sides of the car so i thought it was pretty sinch. but the shocks in the front im scared of. lol cos 1 of my mates his a machanic and he had his head split open cos of replacing the springs on the shocks which i dont know how it happen lol. yh cant wait for the how to on the vn suspension will b looking forward to it. thanx again guyz |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 29 Jan 2007 : 2:14:18 PM
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As with any work on a car, it's only dangerous if you don't have the right tools.
My best guess is that the guy who ended up with a cracked head didn't use spring compressors, but used standard G-clamps instead. Spring compressors are the only safe tool to use to remove coil springs that are under load.
I've seen a g-clamp snap and embed itself quite firmly in the concrete wall at the other end of a workshop. By all accounts your mate is lucky to be alive. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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Palmz17
P Plater
77 Posts
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Posted - 29 Jan 2007 : 9:37:03 PM
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| i'm thinking those clamps might just be the spring compressors too remove the struts |
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Palmz17
P Plater
77 Posts
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Posted - 29 Jan 2007 : 9:50:37 PM
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hey mouce i wont to go as low as the legal limit
what springs do i need ( as in low or super low) and also was is a panhard rod and what does it do? |
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SWEET
Fully Licenced
600 Posts
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Posted - 29 Jan 2007 : 10:32:16 PM
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| just asked him today (friend) and he said he was using a universal joint with a impact gun and the uni joint flew off wen he was undoing the top bolt and smaked his head lol |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 29 Jan 2007 : 10:39:51 PM
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It depends on what brand you go for as to what is low/superlow/ultralow, it also depends on what condition the bushes are in and the shocks struts. Really you need to get on down to your local suspension shop and get them to put together a spring/shock/strut package that will drop you to 100mm. Actually I would recommend not going any lower than 120mm...that gives you a safety margin for when you're pulled over, if you've got a full tank of fuel and a car full of mates you should still be over 100mm.
The panhard rod is the device which keeps the diff located in the middle of the car. Get under the back of your car, have a look at the rear axle, there's a big bar that's bolted on to the drivers side of the rear of the rear axle, it then runs diagonally up to the passengers side where it bolts on to part of the body of the car (actually it's the chassis). As you lower the car, because it can't adjust its length it pushes the diff over to the drivers side, this places a bit of extra stress on the uni joint, but more importantly it can cause the tyres to rub on the bodywork because the diff is no longer centered properly.
If you're going to drop it to the legal limit you'll need to get different bump stops, shocks/struts, panhard rod, springs and I'd SERIOUSLY recommend look at converting your link-pins to bolt onto the lower control arm of the front suspension. Whiteline do a kit that gives you all you need to do the conversion of the Link Pins. It will help improve handling a LOT. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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