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LUZNIT
P Plater
18 Posts
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 Posted - 19 May 2005 : 08:36:14 AM
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since all capa and crs s/c and all the other ones are forced air induction, is there anyway possible of adding a high rpm fan or 2 into the cold air box to push in more air, and with the fan it wouldn't be a 12v or anything, it would have to be a 240volt fan running of an invertor, just wondering would anyone think that it would create some more power without big cost?? by adding such a simple thing?
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SlowVac
P Plater
40 Posts
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Posted - 19 May 2005 : 8:52:46 PM
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| I think you would be wasting your money electric fans |
VN SII Vactioner |
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michaelw
P Plater
15 Posts
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Posted - 19 May 2005 : 10:10:05 PM
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To give you some idea of what is required lets do some back of the envelope calcs. Anyone feel free to correct me I am taking a punt from first principles here.
Every revolution a 4 stroke 3.8l engine draws in 3.8/2=1.9l of air. So at 2000 rpm thats 1.9x2000=3800 l/min. But we have to pressurise the air. Now I will pick 6psi which is a good boost presure. 1 atmosphere of pressure is 14.70psi so 6 psi boost is 1.4 atmospheres so to shift 3800l/min at 6psi we need to draw 3800x1.4=5320 l/min of air.
Thats a whole lot of air.
Mike (I hope this is right) |
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No Longer Member
deleted
16 Posts
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Posted - 22 May 2005 : 02:01:43 AM
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sounds correct, emphasis on the pressurise. the fan wouldn't be able to punch the air in.
but how about a airbag suspension compressor, still dont think that would work either
thats why u pay up to 10k for a good s/c set up
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 01 Jun 2005 : 2:39:47 PM
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There are a few companies who sell electric 'superchargers', have a look on e-bay, and piss yourself laughing at them. That's about all they're good for. Have a look around some of the commodore forums around and you'll see that they are little more than novilty items.
As to those calculations, I can't argue with the numbers, but imagine the engine hitting 3000 or 4000 rpm, that's more air than an electric fan or two could move. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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LUZNIT
P Plater
18 Posts
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Posted - 03 Jun 2005 : 10:07:18 AM
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| ok ok then, fans wont be good, but what u guys dont release is im not gonna use no stupid low rpm fan, it would have to be a big rpm fan, anyway, my other idea, is running compressed air or real air from an oxygen tank and hooking up through a pressure regulator and then squirting pure air into engine mixing with outside air, i can't mix to much oxygen(5%) or else engine will blow up in pieces, surely this idea has to do some effect to the engine in power wise thought |
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LUZNIT
P Plater
18 Posts
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Posted - 03 Jun 2005 : 10:14:14 AM
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| nup, even better idea, just strap a dyno fan to the front of your car, and drive around with that!!! haha, plenty cold air |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 04 Jun 2005 : 3:56:56 PM
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High RPM fan? Think f**king huge RPM fan. My 12cm fan in my computer is running at 3100RPM and only moves 41 cubic-feet per minute, I don't know what the conversion is to L/min or anything, but I know that it's not going to do **** in an intake system.
I know that you'd be looking at something better than a PC cooling fan, but unless you make up some strange arse adaptor, you're going to have a few issues fitting it to the air box.
So what fan are you thinking of using?
The O2 straight into the engine, that could be a bit of a problem. Keep in mind that standard air is 20.1% O2 so you'd be going over and above that. If you're thinking of doing straight O2 injection, why not look at NOS? I know it's illegal, but then again, would straight O2 injection be any different? |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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LUZNIT
P Plater
18 Posts
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Posted - 07 Jun 2005 : 09:42:34 AM
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high rpm fan --- ??!!!??? dont know, i wouldn't use one, i would use a few expensive fans, who knows what and where, was just a thought but since everyone knows and i know it wont work, there was some logic behind the idea(that doesn't work), if i had NOS, i would have to relabel the bottle and put a fire extingisher label on it! to make it look like its not nos, then the engine wont handle that unless it has work done to it
what is wrong with the air compressor/O2 idea? will it work or wont it, i think it will but not by much(1 - 3kw more)
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No Longer Member
deleted
1 Posts
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Posted - 18 Jun 2005 : 2:01:52 PM
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I attached a PC 12V 80mm cooling fan onto the air intake on my VN S1 V6 before and it was a dismal failure! Did nothing at all to performance.....
[QUOTE=michaelw]To give you some idea of what is required lets do some back of the envelope calcs. Anyone feel free to correct me I am taking a punt from first principles here.
Every revolution a 4 stroke 3.8l engine draws in 3.8/2=1.9l of air. So at 2000 rpm thats 1.9x2000=3800 l/min. But we have to pressurise the air. Now I will pick 6psi which is a good boost presure. 1 atmosphere of pressure is 14.70psi so 6 psi boost is 1.4 atmospheres so to shift 3800l/min at 6psi we need to draw 3800x1.4=5320 l/min of air.[/QUOTE]
Hmmm.... if what you are saying is correct, then its pretty obvious to me now why the PC fans never worked. I knew it wouldnt anyway but I tried it for fun.
I was looking in my Jaycar Electronics catalogue and found a fan of 150mm diameter that runs off 240V AC power. It has an air volume of 6.57m^3/min, which is 6570L/min. This is more than the 5320L/min you quoted for 6PSI boost... the fan is $83.50. 150mm (5.9") is a lot wider than the 3" air intake pipe though.... but its interesting cuz it pulls a lot of air volume. Does anyone think it might be worth a try fabbing up some sort of weird looking pipe or whatever to convert 5.9" to 3" and stick it on the air intake? (maybe a half-cone shaped pipe?).
Although the fan would run off the intverter if rain water should touch the 240V wires of the fan I dont think it would be pleasant situation.... and dunno where you'd put a big fan like that anyway where it will get cold air. |
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