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foxtrot.tango
P Plater
86 Posts
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 Posted - 20 Mar 2006 : 5:37:47 PM
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Just recently inherited a 1988 VN Commodore Exec and filled it up from the gauge showing a bit above empty to a bit above full with 48L of Shell Optimax. This was on the Saturday and today is Monday and the gauge has fallen down to the quarter full mark! I know these fuel gauges are ridiculously inaccurate but does this sound right??
By the way is there anyway to tell how much fuel is really in your tank?
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VN Executive 1988 - Auto 3.8V6 |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 20 Mar 2006 : 9:52:04 PM
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The fuel gauges in any car are normally not fantastic, here's a few reasons why:
1) It wasn't really full. Just because the pump clicked off doesn't mean it's full, you can normally squeeze another 5L in there after it clicks off for the first time.
2) The gauge could be a bit sticky. Even with a brimmed tank, when I start the car the gauge won't move above the full line, after about 5km it comes good and reads above full.
3) In combination with number 1, if the car is parked on a slope, that will REALLY make the fuel gauge do strange things, if the front of the car is uphill the gauge will read low, if the back of the car is uphill the gauge will read high.
That said, you've managed to go from Full to having only 1/4 left? Without driving it? Sounds like a serious fuel leak. Either that or someone is stealing your fuel. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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foxtrot.tango
P Plater
86 Posts
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Posted - 20 Mar 2006 : 10:45:29 PM
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Sorry about that yeah i meant to say i have been driving it. The odometer has stopped working so i dont know how far since i filled it. I'd say about 50 - 80km a day.
Some things i've noticed about the gauge is that everytime i look at it it seems to drop more and more the lower it gets. When driving in hilly areas and up and down slopes it does rise and fall as expected. I've had a look for leaks under the car and on the ground but havnt noticed anything. Also i've found that the gauge can be brought back to life by banging the dash a bit (Usual for this model). All an all though the guage is positively going down, so what i reckon i might do is go to the servo again and see how much it takes to top up again.
Any idea how to get the odo working again? |
VN Executive 1988 - Auto 3.8V6 |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 10:33:57 AM
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If you're fuel consumption is really ****, clean your throttle body, and replace your 02 sensor.
Although, you should notice a bit of a drop in the fuel gauge after having done 240km. From a brimmed tank, I can do 250km and it's down to half a gauge, then after another 150km it's touching on empty, and I still have about 15-20L left in it!
Keep a fuel log book, record the distance you've done (even if your odometer doesn't work, your trip meter should) and the number of litres that you squeeze into it. I've been keeping a log book for as long as I've had my car, and I can tell you that it's a really handy thing, you can normally pick up on a few faults before they get really bad. The only trade off is that you have to completely fill the tank each time, otherwise the results are meaningless.
As to the odometer, there's a lot of things that can cause that to stop working, might be time to consider a replacement instrument cluster, you can pick them up from wreckers fairly cheaply, and being an Auto you don't need a tacho, so all you need is a stage 1 cluster. That may also fix your fuel gauge too. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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mongoose3800
Starting in the driveway
4 Posts
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Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 5:04:07 PM
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| Don't use optimax in VN's. I've found it gives you the worst fuel economy. I'm talking around 50-100km less per tank. |
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foxtrot.tango
P Plater
86 Posts
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Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 6:12:28 PM
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| Oh really?? damn ok then so just stick with ULP then? |
VN Executive 1988 - Auto 3.8V6 |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 6:50:38 PM
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@mongoose3800: be careful making blanket statements like that. I know for a fact that in the right situation optimax gives me the best economy of all the fuels available. I'm not saying that it's a fantastic fuel for all types of driving, but if I'm cruising along at 100 for hour after hour, optimax normally runs about 50km FURTHER than any other fuel.
Some people find that some fuels are better in their car than others. What works in one car, may not work in the next. You just have to find what works and what doesn't. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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foxtrot.tango
P Plater
86 Posts
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Posted - 22 Mar 2006 : 4:47:36 PM
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Well i've taken your advice mouce and started a fuel log - this is a copy of it so far.
18/03/06 9:20am – Filled from completely empty to a few notches above completely full with 40.5L of Shell Optimax @ 123.9c/L ($60.09)
Drove to Caloundra, Mooloolaba and a few trips to Nambour and Woombye.
Gauge dropped considerably quickly and even quicker the lower it got and each time I took it for a drive.
21/03/06 2:18pm – Filled from a notch above the empty red line to a notch above the full line with 33.36L of Shell Optimax @ 119.9c/L ($40.00)
From that it looks like it takes 30 - 40 litres for the gauge to go from empty to full. The tank on a VN has a 63L capacity as far as i know so that leaves 20 -30L still there! By the way what happens when you run a EFI car dry? |
VN Executive 1988 - Auto 3.8V6 |
Edited by - foxtrot.tango on 22 Mar 2006 4:49:21 PM |
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davep
P Plater
43 Posts
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Posted - 23 Mar 2006 : 09:06:16 AM
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to work out your actual consumption, reset your trip meter after you fill up. then when you next fill up, read off how many km's you've done, and divide the number of litres put in, by this. e.g.
I've driven 300km and put in 40l of fuel,
fuel consumption = 40 / 300 = 0.133
now multiply this by 100: 0.133 x 100 = 13.3 litres per 100km
I have pretty much the same issue as you, my guage reads almost empty and i only ever put a max of around 50l in (normally 40-45). I have considered that the fuel pump may have been replaced and put in out of alignment at some stage, as the fuel pump assembly also has the float in it, which gives you the fuel level reading on your guage. The fuel pump slides into the tank, then you bolt the pump flange to the tank with 6 bolts, in a hexagon arrangement, if this was rotated say, 1 position, it may give the issues we are seeing. I havnt worried about it too much, it is a bit annoying when i should be able to do 700km+ on a fwy, but have to refill after around 500 though.
-dave |
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foxtrot.tango
P Plater
86 Posts
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Posted - 23 Mar 2006 : 1:46:43 PM
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| Haha only one problem... neither my odo or trip meter work. Think im gonna have to look at getting a new instrument cluster. |
VN Executive 1988 - Auto 3.8V6 |
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davep
P Plater
43 Posts
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 12:14:21 PM
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Running a tank to dry is normally not such a fantastic idea. It'll start up again no problems when you do get a bit of fuel back into the tank, BUT, all the crap in the bottom of your tank has been sucked up by the pump and jammed into the fuel filter (time for a new filter), and normally when a car runs dry it backfires, this explosion quite easily shatters the honeycomb setup inside your catalytic converter (time for a new cat).
As a general rule, I try not to have less than 15 ltrs left in the tank.
Also, with that fuel log that you're keeping, as Dave pointed out, you need to keep track of your distance accurately, otherwise you might as well be pissing into the wind. Run through about ten tanks of each sort of fuel, then make up your mind as to which one is the WORST fuel to use, and then run another ten tanks of the other fuels. Do this until you've worked out which are the best three or four fuels for your car. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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foxtrot.tango
P Plater
86 Posts
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Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 4:10:24 PM
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| Righto well ive now used 97.22L of fuel within a week. That means 13L per day and im pretty sure i drive at the most 100Km a day. Anyway the other day i got under the car to check it all out. Took at look at the fuel tank and found that the hose connecting to fuel pump had a drop of fuel hanging off it. I gave it a fiddle and fuel squirted out everywhere. Got that fixed up yesterday and filled it up with 23L and the guage went from quarter full to the second bar under the Full line. Today its down to half... |
VN Executive 1988 - Auto 3.8V6 |
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foxtrot.tango
P Plater
86 Posts
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Posted - 31 Mar 2006 : 3:43:59 PM
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| OK well i now have a new instrument cluster installed so i have a trip meter back in action. Havnt had it long enough to work out the exact fuel economy im getting but according to my log im now spending approx $125 a week on FUEL!!! Im only doing average driving around town plus now some delivery driving which defiently will make the economy go down but $125 a week is not right, i may aswell be driving a 6L V8 around. If anyone has any ideas as to what some possible scenarios are for loss in fuel that would be great. |
VN Executive 1988 - Auto 3.8V6 |
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brentenw
Learner
8 Posts
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Posted - 31 Mar 2006 : 5:30:54 PM
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i got 5 litre vn, drive about 350 to 450 kms a week.
never spent more than $95 week. |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 31 Mar 2006 : 6:59:50 PM
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If you're driving (around town) anywhere around 800-900km then you should be looking at about $125. It's not impossible. I actually managed to go through more than $200 of fuel in a week in an EXCEL!!!
If you're doing courier work (deliveries) then a lot of startup/shutdown sequences could have something to do with it. Maybe check your O2 sensor (can't remember if you've done that yet or not), it may just be a co-incidence that it's happened at the same time as throwing a new cluster in.
BTW, was the odometer reading on the new cluster lower than your orriginal one by any chance *wink*. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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brentenw
Learner
8 Posts
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Posted - 31 Mar 2006 : 7:55:56 PM
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was the tank really full?
filled up mine from around the same mark and it took
40 to 45 litres. |
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foxtrot.tango
P Plater
86 Posts
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Posted - 01 Apr 2006 : 02:50:53 AM
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Yeah im doing delivery work for dominos. Any way hah hah ha no the new odo is at 330700 the old was 270 661 :(
What i might do is take it to sunco holden and get them to have a look at it. Hope its something simple like the o2 sensor. The car is just way to impractical to use at the moment. Ive already put about 600 into it about 800 including fuel :( and im worried that when it comes to seeling i will loose money on it. |
VN Executive 1988 - Auto 3.8V6 |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 01 Apr 2006 : 10:23:12 AM
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It's a car, of course you're going to loose money when you sell it. No one buys a VN as an investment!
It's not hard to wind the odometer back on the new cluster. And since you have the original cluster with proof of how far it had actually gone, it's not illegal to do so (as far as I know).
Hey you wanna talk repairs? In the three years I've had mine, I've spend more than $2500 on repairs, about $1000 on tyres (keep in mind I run 14" stockies!), and about $6000 in fuel. Not to mention the fact that I got ripped off buying it ($4500) but I didn't know any better at the time, and it's a manual. So I KNOW I'm going to loose big time when I sell it.
Don't think about the money though, otherwise you won't enjoy the car. Just realise that you enjoy driving your car, and that any money you spend on it is for your enjoyment. Hell, I'm about to dump another $4000 into the car, suspension/sound/carputer...why? Because I enjoy my car. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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foxtrot.tango
P Plater
86 Posts
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Posted - 02 Apr 2006 : 2:13:25 PM
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| Well its just that i got the car for free and im on a tight budget and id really prefer a smaller manual 6 or a 4 so i dont want to loose all my money into a possible onging problem car. |
VN Executive 1988 - Auto 3.8V6 |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 02 Apr 2006 : 11:46:17 PM
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If you want a smaller car now is the time to get it. Before major stuff starts to go wrong on the VN. If you hold onto the VN for more than about 12 months, you'll end up having to throw big bucks at it to pass a RWC test before you can sell it.
Normally I wouldn't suggest this, but if you really want to get another car because you're really hard up for cash, then go for it. That said, you got what could be a really nice car (albeit with a few dollar spent on it) for free. That's not something that happens every day.
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Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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foxtrot.tango
P Plater
86 Posts
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Posted - 03 Apr 2006 : 7:45:50 PM
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| Well back to the fuel problem havnt driven far enough yet to get an economy reading but the guage sure is dropping hastely. Went out and bought a new bosch o2 sensor for $70 and some injector cleaner. |
VN Executive 1988 - Auto 3.8V6 |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 03 Apr 2006 : 10:56:31 PM
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| Make sure that your spark plugs, air filter and throttle body are as clean as they can be. That'll help too. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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foxtrot.tango
P Plater
86 Posts
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Posted - 04 Apr 2006 : 1:35:39 PM
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| Righto yeah spark plugs and air filter are good. Not so sure about how to go with the throttle body. How do you remove it and all the connections going to it and then how do you clean it? Also how do you know if its dirty. I've taken the air intake pipe all off and had a look inside there and rubbed off a light film of dust/grease/powder on my finger. |
VN Executive 1988 - Auto 3.8V6 |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 04 Apr 2006 : 4:53:48 PM
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Getting the throttle body off is easy, well...it was for me anyway. I just disconnected all the hoses, and electrical connections, unhooked the cable (you'll have more than one cable being an auto), undid the two nuts holding it in place and pulled it out.
That said, you can give it a good clean without taking it out, just get some carby cleaner on a rag and start scrubbing. The butterfly plate should be nice and shiny, at the moment it's probably kinda dull and black.
The one big advantage of taking it out is that you can clean the IACV too, it can get fairly well caked in crap and not work wonderfully.
If you're feeling really lazy, take the intake pipe off, and just spray the carby cleaner into the throttle body with the engine running. You'll know if you spray too much into there, because the engine will stall. Do this outside of your garage/carport, it makes a LOT of smoke. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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johnny cade
On a small holiday
338 Posts
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Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 11:00:17 AM
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| lol my dad tried that inside my workshop once...lol he almost past out and died...lol...i laughed for hours...as most normal balanced people would! |
He sees an old man and says “See we’ll part with your hard,
Earned cash or rest in peace we can start with your heart.
Some girl steps not afraid she’s gonna cop it sweet,
And gets decked before she made it even on her feet,
The old man leaped to her aid and to his horror he’d,
Thrusted his chest into the blade of his robber s piece,
He grabbed the wallet, dropped the knife as he fled the car,
Concerned about the loss of life he’d never went this far,
What’s done is done, he’d got the prize and he’d spent his half,
Of two dollars in change and a pension card. |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 8:37:22 PM
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| First time I saw it done was in a closed workshop. Thankfully I was outside when it happened, damn the smoke from it was amazing. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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foxtrot.tango
P Plater
86 Posts
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Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 4:45:37 PM
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| So.. thats ok to do to the engine?? |
VN Executive 1988 - Auto 3.8V6 |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 5:58:08 PM
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Yep, as I said, you know when you've sprayed too much when the engine stalls :)
But you will get the best possible result if you actually take the t/b off and clean it by hand. Just spraying in there may get 40% of the crap off, wiping out with a rag with it still on the motor might get 75-80% off, taking the t/b off and giving it a good scrubbing will leave you with a spotless one. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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foxtrot.tango
P Plater
86 Posts
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Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 10:18:20 AM
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Righto i'll look into it then ;) - Back to the fuel here are my results:
4 April
330906kms
44.53L @ $1.23/L BP Ultimate
8 April
331287kms
43L @ $1.27/L BP Ulitmate
This Works out to be 381km of driving and 87.53L of fuel in 4 days. Average that out and im getting 11.28L/100Km. From a 17 year old 3.8L V6 that can't be to bad. Does this sound about right then for my car?
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VN Executive 1988 - Auto 3.8V6 |
Edited by - foxtrot.tango on 08 Apr 2006 10:21:50 AM |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 12:30:08 PM
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Those figures match up really closely to what I get for mine, and it's a 19 year old (in August) 3.8ltr V6 manual. And I run optimax through mine most of the time, occasionally just Unleaded 95, but the figures don't change much. They get really crap on regular unleaded.
Best fuel consumption I ever got was 6.952ltrs/100km (which is strange because I spent most of that time 'cruising' at 150kph)
Worst fuel consumption I ever got was 16.75ltrs/100km (doing time trials on an alpine mountain pass road, foot on the floor for 30 minutes each way)
Long term average (calculated over 176 refills) is 11.4533ltrs/100km. I'm not upset with those figures. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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